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How BallC made 2.3g in store sales last night

Victoria Raverna RJ: Victoria Raverna CO: Victoria Raverna Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 107 Karma: 43 Joined: Apr 11, 2012	Posted on Jun 29, 2012 Moe Jack, It'll still be an issue. It'll slow it down a bit but it'll still a problem.
Dan Laurence RJ: Sourpuss CO: Sourpuss Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 49 Karma: 15 Joined: Mar 27, 2012	Posted on Jun 29, 2012 I agree. There is currently a mechanic in place where you can't take a loan out if your company has lost value since the last update. Instead, it asks you to re-appraise, which of course would lower the listed net worth. Can we get this mechanic added to the $30m company net worth limit for the cashless influence upgrades?
Cian Kemp RJ: Cian Kemp CO: Cian Kemp Post Rating: 1 + / - Total Posts: 183 Karma: 58 Joined: Apr 9, 2012	Posted on Jun 29, 2012 @Moejack: While it's not quite a zero sum game, the amount of money you can pull from a market is very dependent upon your competitors. Take designer dresses. They used to be very profitable for me, as I was selling a lot of them. Ever since BallC got into making and selling designer dresses he takes about 3/4 of the market. Before him I wasn't able to get the demand met to 100% by myself, with him it often goes way above 100% (significantly reducing my sales). I make less than half as much off designer dresses as I did before he got into them. I imagine everyone in the jewelry market is reeling after the sudden size 4000 store popped up over night, and soon there will probably be 8000m2 or more of jewelry stores in BallC's new company. Sourpuss is probably making less now that I got into electronics. My point is, this IS a multiplayer game - and what other players do affects everyone. BallC might be generating more demand for you, but he's taking demand from other folks. If he was doing it with legitimately earned money nobody would have a problem with it, that's the name of the game. But that 2.5g of sales was an obvious exploit. The fact that the #1 player on the server felt the need to cheat up an extra 2.5x his net worth as soon as he found a way to do it even though he already had a solid bit of cash that was more or less legitimate just boggles my mind. You would be singing a different tune if BallC opened a mineral company, researched all the minerals to 40+, then flooded the market with cheap iron ore and coal and everything. The only reason he hasn't done that is the mineral markets just aren't all that profitable at the current market rates. You know what? If BallC isn't jailed over this, instead of quitting I'll just abuse the same mechanic and start me a raw materials company. I'll instabuild 10k of mines and produce 40ql coal and iron ore and natural gas and anything anyone wants me to and everyone will love me for providing them such quality materials. And it won't hurt anyone that I cheated up billions to make the company, because this isn't a zero sum game.
Moe Jack RJ: Moejack CO: Moe Jack Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 128 Karma: 74 Joined: Apr 7, 2012	Posted on Jun 29, 2012 Please do, then I'll have an excuse to quit! Again, instabuild is the problem. And one more thing... notice it's generally only people with NW over 150 Million complaining?
Cian Kemp RJ: Cian Kemp CO: Cian Kemp Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 183 Karma: 58 Joined: Apr 9, 2012	Posted on Jun 29, 2012 I wouldn't need the instabuild. Mines build pretty quick, just the extra cash to get the company going and to buy out research until I hit somewhere around 50ish. Hmm, is the bug catching on in the general populace or did BallC decide he needed more money? Pizza $8.00 $67.5 k 9.0 10.0 707 15 4,718.67% Them some expensive pizzas. Nearly 48 million worth. I wonder which product is next? $50,000 pot roast? -edit- And I wasn't complaining when he sold the aircraft. It needed to be fixed, but it wasn't an obvious exploit like this. This is a huge very specific exploit that could generate near infinite money, and it would have been far better to leave the cat in the bag until RJ could fix it.
Moe Jack RJ: Moejack CO: Moe Jack Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 128 Karma: 74 Joined: Apr 7, 2012	Posted on Jun 29, 2012 I don't wanna have to keep defending BallC. I don't really think that his actions are fair, but I don't think that should be the focus of people's anger. It's not the responsibility of the "crowd" to enforce rules on here. I've never done an instabuild and I think that, if you really look at it, your complaints aren't all that different from those of anyone who has had a "legitimate" instabuild dropped on their industry of choice (see me and Ratan). It's pretty disingenuous to argue that that's ok and this isn't. We should be demanding that Scott actually tell us what the roadmap is and making quick and fair judgements. As it is, he's not responding to bug reports, he's not responding on the forums, and the lack of authority is a big part of this issue. Also Cian, I think you show some true colors by making the threats to me. I've played the game pretty purely. I've not taken advantage of any sort of instabuilding or demand anomaly. -------- edit I am gonna stop arguing in this thread. I didn't mean to be carrying water for BallC, he can defend himself. I've probably damaged my business quite a bit already. PM me if you feel the need to discuss further. I'm not gonna say a word on the forums until we have a developer back paying some attention.
Aaron Barr RJ: Aaron CO: Aaron Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 81 Karma: 74 Joined: Apr 13, 2012	Posted on Jun 29, 2012 Thats the real problem. A small, growing game that until recently had active dev discussion. Scott didn't always make popular decisions, but any decision is infinitely better than hiding. I'm not trying to expect too much from a freebie game, but when you announce on your own forums a server launch out of beta the users tend to expect some amount of upkeep.
Aaron Barr RJ: Aaron CO: Aaron Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 81 Karma: 74 Joined: Apr 13, 2012	Posted on Jun 29, 2012 Well I think most people complained because you could enter whatever market you felt like while they were struggling to survive. Its one thing to insist on your innocence here, and I've been a supporter ballc, but really you gotta stop playing this angle about how you're some awesome player. You write bots and scripts to identify weaknesses in mechanics programmed by one dude doing it on the side for the fun of it. Wow, you're an amazing genius. Salut edit: why isn't there an ignore on the B2B? guess I have no alternative than to go all out vertical retail if I don't want to support BallC's conglomerate.
Cian Kemp RJ: Cian Kemp CO: Cian Kemp Post Rating: 1 + / - Total Posts: 183 Karma: 58 Joined: Apr 9, 2012	Posted on Jun 29, 2012 @Moejack - I wasn't trying to make threats against you, I was simply making a point that while this is not a zero sum game, other players actions can very much affect you. And if someone cheats to get vast sums of money, this action can affect people negatively. And all the instabuilds he did in my market were perfectly legitimate, and I didn't mind them. Sure, I made less money on clothing - but it was legitimate money and a legitimate business action that he did. His recent actions actually don't affect me personally since I'm not in jewelry, I just feel that cheating in such a way cheapens the game for everyone. @BallC well, some people didn't think bots were legitimate and were asking if RJ does. If you recall I defended you there, since bots are considered legit. Up until now I didn't have a problem with any of your actions. In this case I feel your exploiting the system crossed the line though. Did you really need 2.5 billion more dollars? Why not earn it the normal way? You were making a fortune without abusing buggy game mechanics, so why start now?
Dan Laurence RJ: Sourpuss CO: Sourpuss Post Rating: 1 + / - Total Posts: 49 Karma: 15 Joined: Mar 27, 2012	Posted on Jun 29, 2012 @BallC: You artificially boosted the WASP with a 1-item sale. This is the main exploiting point. If you actually read my correspondence with Scott, you see the item I was complaining about was extremely high sales @0% demand -- which was changed. What you are doing is manipulating the WASP. One item of Sorbet selling at $100,000 in the past 24 hours will affect 1 tick of 'real' sales to the point of stupidity. Now it seems you are doing it to Pot Roast and Pizza. Hey, that's cool, keep trying to delude people by boiling down my post to "working as intended", when it obviously wasn't -- in the next sentence Scott talks about changing it (yay 5k influence for me). Of course you truncated that part when you quoted me, good work.
Jim Frazer RJ: Kenneth Noisewater CO: Kenneth Noisewater Post Rating: 1 + / - Total Posts: 25 Karma: 31 Joined: Apr 14, 2012	Posted on Jun 29, 2012 If you wanted to see if you could exploit it and then report is as a bug, why didn't you do it on the beta site, which is the purpose of the site? At least now I understand why my soccer ball sales would leap from $12k to $48k and drop back down to $12k without me changing a thing in my prices or quality. I kept seeing it with all my sports prices, just random spikes in demand that would settle down and then spike again the next day around the same time. I thought it was someone running out of product,pushing up my market share, but I guess it was unintended benefits from pump-and-dump pricing driving up demand artificially.
Dan Laurence RJ: Sourpuss CO: Sourpuss Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 49 Karma: 15 Joined: Mar 27, 2012	Posted on Jun 29, 2012 I don't think anyone is having trouble selling items where the demand is 25% or lower. The 0% sales numbers needed a fix. This happened 3 weeks ago.
Andrew Naples RJ: Clemen Salad CO: Clemen Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 214 Karma: 89 Joined: Apr 26, 2012	Posted on Jun 29, 2012 RJ really needs to weigh on this stuff one way or another. Like theres no catharsis, even if it didnt go my way at least there wouldnt be all this uncertainty so theres 130 post threads and then this one. And everyone just gets more and more frustrated. Did he take a break? It seems like hes worked on the game a little bit in the last few weeks but no posts/updates Edit: And we wouldnt be trying to interpret meaning like the effing Bible from 3 month forum posts.
Dan Laurence RJ: Sourpuss CO: Sourpuss Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 49 Karma: 15 Joined: Mar 27, 2012	Posted on Jun 29, 2012 BallC: You're still ignoring the WASP manipulation you pulled off which does have a huge impact. Selling 1 item for 50,000x wholesale (one that hasn't been sold in the past 12 hours so the demand is 0) to 'set' the WASP, then selling for a huge "discount" (but still 300x wholesale) is where you exploited. Unless you have something to add that specifically mentions how this isn't an exploit, I think we're done here.
Dan Laurence RJ: Sourpuss CO: Sourpuss Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 49 Karma: 15 Joined: Mar 27, 2012	Posted on Jun 29, 2012 That post you are referencing is 3 months old, and other things (Av Quality and *gasp* WASP) have entered the equation. Anyways, what we have here isn't a supply/demand exploit, it's an exploit in the way ticks are calculated. Here let me boil it down for you: 216,000% Again, let me repeat: 216,000% Once more, for good measure: 216,000% This is simply a symptom of what you did, much like a fever.

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