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Game has become a joke until bugs are addressed, where is Sc

Company Man RJ: Don Draper CO: Don Draper Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 17 Karma: 10 Joined: Jun 16, 2013	Posted on Nov 12, 2013 It's been over 3 weeks now since the exploits popularized by Vance have been occurring. In that time a tremendous amount of illegitimate cash has flowed to various companies and the top player rankings have become an absolute sham. I understand Scott is busy in real life but there at least needs to be some communication so people don't waste their time. At this point the damage is severe and widespread enough that the only sensible remedy is to either go back and undo the exploitative transactions if that is technically feasible or shift the CO server over to the test server so people can still play with their quadrillions and the time invested then start a new "live" server from scratch where there is some incentive to actually play normally. I have greatly enjoyed this game and see a lot of promise with it but it's not worth spending any serious time on in it's current state from a competitive standpoint. Great time to work on strategies however, so there is that. I encourage you all to bang the drums and get Scott to come in here and answer for this nonsense. Fix the game! P.S. I also don't think it's a good idea for one player to be able to control what seems like an unlimited number of companies, but since I don't know if there is an actual hardcoded limit to that I'll save that rant for another day. If there is no hard limit than that is just as exploitable as vances trickery.
Henry King RJ: Business Tycoon CO: BusinessTycoon Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 83 Karma: 13 Joined: May 31, 2013	Posted on Nov 12, 2013 I agree with these views that have been expressed by Don Draper. First, Vance has done a lot of harm to the game by injecting a lot of free cash into the game that he got from stealing from the system via free money machine exploits. In some cases, it is likely that Vance has multiple accounts (he used at least four accounts in his various efforts to exploit the game, some of which are dead now, but at least a few are alive and very wealthy now). For other players, the benefits and costs of Vance's actions were unsolicited but still very powerful in changing the game dynamics. The comment about unlimited companies is also spot on. I am the one Draper is talking about controlling many companies, and even so, I agree that it is absurd not to have any limits. I have been buying more and more companies in part just to see if there is any limit ever to the number of companies you can own. So far, the answer appears to be no as to any limit on buying companies. At first, I thought maybe I would not be able to buy or control more than 20 companies, which makes a lot of sense as a policy, but there is obviously no such limit. If such a limit is introduced, and it does make sense to do so to me, then I would certainly hope that I could be given some time to gracefully and gradually sell off some of my existing companies and reduce my management of other firms, rather than being immediately forced overnight to make some hard decisions about what to sell and to whom and what to keep.
Company Man RJ: Don Draper CO: Don Draper Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 17 Karma: 10 Joined: Jun 16, 2013	Posted on Nov 12, 2013 Heh I wasn't trying to pick on you out about the multiple companies, it just got me thinking that a person could abuse unlimited companies in the same way as the other nonsense. Although now that you have outed yourself, I do think you jumped the shark at 28 companies controlled LOL.
Tiny Hogwaffle RJ: Caligula CO: Tiny Hogwaffle Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 128 Karma: 10 Joined: Jun 3, 2013	Posted on Nov 12, 2013 I don't think of multiple companies as an exploit. I've found that it takes a lot of work running them, and I probably won't go more than 5 per server; but if someone wants to put all the work into running 20 companies, more power to 'em. I'm pretty sure vance's exploits have been around forever. There have always been exploits of one kind or another going on, and you pretty much just have to accept that they happen. Competing for the highest net worth is pretty much pointless; if you want the game to be competitive, maybe you should set some other goal for yourself, such as dominating the hardware industry or something like that.
Company Man RJ: Don Draper CO: Don Draper Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 17 Karma: 10 Joined: Jun 16, 2013	Posted on Nov 12, 2013 It's not the multiple companies that are an exploit, it's the fact that without a limit on the amount controlled there is nothing to stop someone creating a feeder account(s) to do nothing but sell them companies. If there were a reasonable limit, then it wouldn't be a big deal since that is within the realm of being realistic to acquire through normal playing. But without a limit it just becomes silly. Now I'll grant that it is possible there is a hard limit and our zealous player base has yet to stumble on it, but whatever that limit may be is at a minimum 28 which in my opinion already starts straining credibility. This pales in comparison to the other stuff though, so I don't want to get derailed going back and forth about that aspect of things. I just added it in as an addendum to highlight that it's not just any one problem going on.
Tiny Hogwaffle RJ: Caligula CO: Tiny Hogwaffle Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 128 Karma: 10 Joined: Jun 3, 2013	Posted on Nov 12, 2013 I still don't see the exploit in that. Are you saying that people are somehow generating free money by creating companies and selling them?
Henry King RJ: Business Tycoon CO: BusinessTycoon Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 83 Karma: 13 Joined: May 31, 2013	Posted on Nov 13, 2013 I have been paying smaller players a premium over the cost of building companies for me to buy them when they are finished building. The cost to add a new company is small for a young player in the game, and the cost to sell it after a few weeks is low as well. The cost for a larger player with six or more companies of adding another company is very high, so it is definitely possible for a smaller player with two or three companies to start a new company and sell it after a few weeks to make a nice profit on the sale.
Company Man RJ: Don Draper CO: Don Draper Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 17 Karma: 10 Joined: Jun 16, 2013	Posted on Nov 13, 2013 To Tiny Hogwaffle: No, people are generating free money by interactions with second (and maybe third, fourth etc.) accounts. My point is that in addition to, or instead of, that particular exploit a person could also use said second account to be in the business of creating and selling accounts to a "main" account. By way of example, Henry King has legitimately acquired his massive empire of companies that he either owns outright or is the chairman of by normal playing means by making buyout offers and convincing smaller players to work with him over a long period of time. In 2 weeks however I could surpass all the work he has done and if there is indeed no practical limit then keep going and make a complete mockery out of things. Rather takes the fun out of things if one player can control enough companies that they don't have to make any decisions about focusing on a narrow range of products and can just enter the market with everything. This becomes even more problematic when you factor in the exponential net worth gains at high fame levels, nothing stopping that person from looting extraneous companies for quadrillions of dollars over time to fund research in market dominating companies.
shark laser RJ: Prince Mubune of Nigeria CO: Semmi Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 32 Karma: 11 Joined: Nov 2, 2013	Posted on Nov 13, 2013 am i being stealthily insulted in this thread and are my methods being called illegitimate it's your own damn fault for selling stuff for less than they're worth
Company Man RJ: Don Draper CO: Don Draper Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 17 Karma: 10 Joined: Jun 16, 2013	Posted on Nov 13, 2013 LOL, I am talking about activities on the CO server, I don't care about the 419 scams or whatever else you are doing on the test server =)
Tiny Hogwaffle RJ: Caligula CO: Tiny Hogwaffle Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 128 Karma: 10 Joined: Jun 3, 2013	Posted on Nov 13, 2013 Okay, maybe getting other people to make companies for you, and then buying them, is kind of an exploit, since it gets around the huge fee you'd normally have to pay. Still, once you get all those companies, it's going to take a immense amount of work clicking on things to run them all. This, I think, is the limiting factor that keeps people with quadrillions in net worth from dominating every single industry in the game and bankrupting everyone else; it's just too much work. Shark laser is talking about buying cheap goods on the B2B, then putting them in a company, closing it, and getting more money back than you spent on the goods. That's a much worse exploit, in my opinion; I have no problem with people buying cheap stuff and then selling it for a higher price on the B2B. There's no guarantee you'll be able to sell the stuff at the price you want, so there's some risk. But, just closing a company and getting instant cash involves no risk at all, and is exploiting a broken game mechanic. But hey, if you have fun exploiting... whatever; it's annoying, but there's not much we can do about it.
Nick Sirock RJ: Sam Sirock CO: Nick Sirock Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 51 Karma: 11 Joined: Jul 8, 2013	Posted on Nov 13, 2013 I think that at least shark laser is relieving some of the over production that is now plaguing a lot of industries now that there are so few people playing. There is little difference between what shark laser is doing and an extremely large company with a huge array of stores buying up large quantities on the b2b at low prices and then putting it in their stores and those items disappearing to NPCS. If you don't have 80 billion to spend on research most companies are going to buy materials from the mega companies with 130 value research or they have their own supply chains, so unless you have a gigantic group of stores it is going to take a long time to earn revenue on the products you are putting more and more of out on the b2b and leaving it to the npcs. There must be only about 20-30 players on the test server, if that, and most of them have suppliers or rely on their own subsidiaries. There are very few reasonably priced requests, so how is a medium sized company supposed to earn money without waiting months? Without the market able to move large quantities of anything, the game might as well be single player.
shark laser RJ: Prince Mubune of Nigeria CO: Semmi Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 32 Karma: 11 Joined: Nov 2, 2013	Posted on Nov 13, 2013 I've actually reinvested something around 20B into a small retail company by now. My goal's not profit, you see. It's more stirring up the markets, though you do need money to achieve that. Far too static for my liking, they are~ Thanks to me a few people brought back the companies which once were unprofitable because they know that if you don't end up buying their products, I'll take it and they'll be left with a smaller, but still a profit. Which lets them expand into actually profitable things or start up retail companies so they sell their products there instead! I'm no Zombie to be able to toss around trillions like it's chump change and help people out that way after all. But hey, if you think that's such an annoyance and detriment to your enjoyment of the game I'll transfer the money around and shut down shop, no biggie.
Tiny Hogwaffle RJ: Caligula CO: Tiny Hogwaffle Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 128 Karma: 10 Joined: Jun 3, 2013	Posted on Nov 13, 2013 "There is little difference between what shark laser is doing and an extremely large company with a huge array of stores buying up large quantities on the b2b at low prices and then putting it in their stores and those items disappearing to NPCS." The difference is selling in stores takes a big time and money investment to build all those stores, and it's not guaranteed that you'll sell everything at the price you want because you might get a competitor or two that drive prices down. Putting stuff into a company and closing it for instant cash involves no risk and is not how that part of the game was intended to be used. While I said it was annoying, I should have said "slightly annoying". I actually don't care that much. If exploiting bothered me that much, I would have stopped playing a while ago. :P
Nick Sirock RJ: Sam Sirock CO: Nick Sirock Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 51 Karma: 11 Joined: Jul 8, 2013	Posted on Nov 13, 2013 In the little difference quote I was talking in terms of the effect on the economy rather than the effect on shark laser specifically. What I'm saying is I'm happy items are being taking out of the b2b and either way they are going poof instead of clogging the pages of the market. Constant overproduction leads to market collapse. Sure this method of relieving creates higher than actual demand, but thats what a government does in times of surplus. However there is no government, as Scott is absent. So items just need to go somewhere.
Tiny Hogwaffle RJ: Caligula CO: Tiny Hogwaffle Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 128 Karma: 10 Joined: Jun 3, 2013	Posted on Nov 13, 2013 There's no good side to that exploit. It doesn't provide any needed service. All it does is artificially raise prices, and lets cheaters get hundreds of billions in a few days, while for those of us who play the game the way it was meant to be played it takes two months to get 1 billion net worth. If that exploit wasn't around, yes, the market would have lots of goods available, and most of it would be very cheap, making it more viable to just buy things you need instead of having to produce almost everything yourself. Many companies would have to close, because supply would be more than demand, but that's how it's supposed to go in a simulation of capitalism.

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