Login

Ratjoy.com » Forums » Ratjoy.com General Discussion » Capitalism First Impressions

Capitalism First Impressions

Cian Kemp RJ: Cian Kemp CO: Cian Kemp Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 183 Karma: 58 Joined: Apr 9, 2012	Posted on Jun 12, 2012 Bob: As far as I know, BallC had about 40m in his company before it got deleted and he got that money plus 10m (same as everyone else - money their company had + 10 mil) so around 50 mil. He took the money and went into the aircraft industry, selling $100 million worth of aircraft (giving him another 50m). He didn't get anything more than the other people jailed - they all got their company value + 10 mil. He just went into the incredibly lucrative aircraft market using all the available capital. The reason it's so lucrative might be shady (allowing you to sell 10,742% of a market's demand every 12-24 hours since it's only a 1 unit sale), but BallC isn't cheating.
Brent Goode RJ: BB Goode CO: BB Goode Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 506 Karma: 180 Joined: Apr 5, 2012	Posted on Jun 12, 2012 Cian: Thank you for that. I was really starting to wonder. I actually like that basic breakdown.
Cian Kemp RJ: Cian Kemp CO: Cian Kemp Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 183 Karma: 58 Joined: Apr 9, 2012	Posted on Jun 12, 2012 I only wish I had done it myself. I could have sold my electronics company a few days ago and went into aircraft, then gone back to electronics and used the money to build a size 2000 electronics store. Now if I wanted a size 2000 electronics store after my company is above level 5 I'd have to spend a week upgrading or $100 million or so to rush the construction. The way the influence system works (free on making new company, costs a boatload to rush existing companies) a company that has been grown slowly from the ground up can never really catch up with a company that's just been constructed with a bunch of money all at once. Or at least not without having over a week of downtime.
Richard Ripberger RJ: Rip CO: Rip Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 153 Karma: 78 Joined: Mar 28, 2012	Posted on Jun 12, 2012 May not be cheating but combine that money and actually being able to get value for his achievements (influence bonus is worthless unless you are big enough to be earning substantial influence) and he has already won the game. It would appear that any hope of a balanced game is futile. Which is extra funny given that people are so worried about memberships giving people an unfair advantage. It would seem to me that someone who doesn't want to retail huge products from imports at the start would need one hell of a membership bonus to even stay competitive. The only way to make major money is to get into huge ticket items since the world sells ten business jets for every 20-30k cartons of milk. It seems as though about 1% of econosians have a personal jet or helicopter.
Bob Malone RJ: Bob Malone CO: Malone Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 341 Karma: 191 Joined: Apr 17, 2012	Posted on Jun 12, 2012 I never spoke about cheating.. BallC is smart enough to win without that. A good reason to not give a bonus like he got and the opportunity to do so early what he did.
Richard Ripberger RJ: Rip CO: Rip Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 153 Karma: 78 Joined: Mar 28, 2012	Posted on Jun 12, 2012 How has he got a $24M loan with only a $27M net worth on Ballmart Aircraft? I think loans should be limited to 50% on net worth even if you are broke at rollover. It should sell off retail space to raise the cash to pay costs. The entire approach of giving players with only $1M a $4M loan was not wise to begin with but letting us borrow whatever is needed at rollover makes for some nonsensical growth thanks to insanely low interest rates. Anyone who has ANY money left at rollover is throwing money away.
Herb Derpman RJ: Herb Derpman CO: Herb Derpman Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 35 Karma: 28 Joined: Apr 15, 2012	Posted on Jun 12, 2012 Not everyone that was deleted got their company plus ten million. Those of us that got deleted woke up with nothing but ten million cash and a message from Scott saying he was sorry, and if we could remember what buildings/stock/tech/etc that we had before the deletion, he would replace it. I personally felt ten million dollars with no debt was a good chunk more than I had before, so all I asked for was my techs, which was level 10 in three different technologies. I'm sure there were other people who asked for a lot more of their old stuff back, but not everyone did. I'm really not much further ahead than I was before being deleted, though I -am- ahead. As far as game balance goes, the import/export market is the source of the current "imbalance" and is something that I really don't understand why it's in the game. Yeah, Capitalism had "imports" but they were extremely limited supply and unreliable because they could change at any time. Of course, when I played, I had imports turned off, so /shrug. It's just part of Scott's plan for this game to be fully playable without ever having to interact with other players, which to me seems very silly for an economic simulation.
Richard Ripberger RJ: Rip CO: Rip Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 153 Karma: 78 Joined: Mar 28, 2012	Posted on Jun 12, 2012 Another thing I just noticed how does someone (Directive, ltd) have Barley at Q18 TWICE? @herb, I agree I would do away with imports all together. Like the stock market they had very little but do a lot to make it more profitable to not play the game.
Cian Kemp RJ: Cian Kemp CO: Cian Kemp Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 183 Karma: 58 Joined: Apr 9, 2012	Posted on Jun 12, 2012 I agree on the imports, game would have gone better without them. You'd deserve the profits if you managed to build aircraft all by yourself this early in the game, but being able to just buy and resell 100m worth of aircraft for a profit of 50m is a bit silly when most of the markets have such low demand in comparison. Game still has its problems, but I enjoy it anyway. I never went into it trying to be #1 anyway, just have fun running a big electronics company.
Kabal RJ: Kabal CO: Kabal Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 41 Karma: 10 Joined: Apr 11, 2012	Posted on Jun 12, 2012 exactly 24h ago i exported petroleum at $39. now the export price dropped to $29.50. $10 drop in 24h? is that a bug or a joke? i think i'll start again and play the cheap and lame flip the imports game.
Kabal RJ: Kabal CO: Kabal Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 41 Karma: 10 Joined: Apr 11, 2012	Posted on Jun 12, 2012 i know the prices are floating daily and that's a good thing,but -$10 in 24h seems to me a bit exagerated. i've spent money on research and then on a well,avoiding totally the shops for a change.selling to exports,expanding the well a bit,keeping expenses under control and avoiding the autoloan.i was always really short on cash and i didn't expect to make money fast nor i was interested in it,but i didn't expect either to export at wholesale from one day to another. i mean,we're talking about a 400m2 well,which is quite fine from the point of view of a casual new player after just a few days.actually i think the casual new player would have less m2 and more expenses because he probably wouldn't stop research and sell the R&D. i'm experimenting and i don't care,i'm just playing the part of the new player who didn't play the beta.i think that player would be quite discouraged and frustrated and in my opinion that's something we don't need right now. maybe a down or up trend splitted more gradually over a few days would give new companies time to adjust the production or even the factories setup.
Richard Ripberger RJ: Rip CO: Rip Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 153 Karma: 78 Joined: Mar 28, 2012	Posted on Jun 12, 2012 Therein lies the main problem BallC. How long did it take to sell a business jet? So who in a world with only four or five companies even with enough net worth to afford one. The overall economic demand is non-nonsensical. In the real world where there a billion of cartons of milk and millions upon million of cars sold, guess how many airplanes are sold? No. of Aircraft Produced - World/US: 1,865/1,215 Global Sales: $19.1 billion Industry Leader: Cessna Aircraft Co. Bestseller: Cessna 162 Skycatcher (168) Is Econosia the very soon to be world leader in airplane consumption? If you sold one you shouldn't be able to sale another for at least en entire game week. Certainly no where near one a game day in a country that. Right now there are about 20 cars a day being sold (which is also high as a ratio to basic needs items. Yet still not as bad as aircraft. Can you imagine that if real world sales were one plane for every twenty cars? Take a look at how many cars are sold in the world. Something on the order of 40 million compared to less than 2000 aircraft. I think even having aircraft in the game at all was probably ill advised. Would have been better off with a wider variety of goods average people actually buy. http://parts.olathetoyota.com/2011-car-sales-statistics.html
Jayle Trigger RJ: Berry Punch CO: Applejack Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 93 Karma: 85 Joined: Apr 9, 2012	Posted on Jun 12, 2012 This must be said... Or at least shown. http://lolbot.net/pix/18918.png (Apple Family doing a Mafia style shakedown against a competitor....) This is how I feel about my current Apple selling competitor as they undercut me on the B2B... If only I had the option to do that...
Richard Ripberger RJ: Rip CO: Rip Post Rating: 2 + / - Total Posts: 153 Karma: 78 Joined: Mar 28, 2012	Posted on Jun 12, 2012 I don't know what I expect all I know is the key to winning the game is to do the least enjoyable thing from a game playing standpoint. So in the end a player must first answer the question do you want to play to win, or for the enjoyment of assembling supply chains to make complex products simply to enjoy the mechanics of it. I would say ideally you could have some actual competition within markets but what happens is the players that make big money off of the big ticket items invariably take the mountain of cash from that and take over other markets with mega huge insta companies. I wonder if the # of companies should be capped at more like three instead of ten. In the end it is a problem similar to the issue of the bottomless pit of money that the stock market created. Just a fraction of the imbalance effect on the game. Ideally if the other markets (food and beverage especially) were adjusted to have 100 times the demand they have currently it would balance it out, but I guess that is about as likely as getting plane sales down to one a week this early. Consider this. The country spent more on airplanes than butter. That is just crazy.
Brent Goode RJ: BB Goode CO: BB Goode Post Rating: 1 + / - Total Posts: 506 Karma: 180 Joined: Apr 5, 2012	Posted on Jun 12, 2012 Wow, I feel like I wrote half of the last dozen posts myself. There is a lot to be said for the real imbalance in the game due to demand issues. Food and clothing should be major demand items, and things like planes on the lower end of the spectrum. At some point, there is going to need to be a restructuring of the demand formulas. I find it true as well, that the imbalance of big ticket companies, and the ability to take those very fast, huge profits and dominate the entire game milieu from early on, to be such an obvious flaw. It is almost proof positive to the "round" game sites that they have it right, and the PPBG model cannot work in econ sims. It takes some serious consideration to work out the right parameters to control that imbalance, and some serious wisdom to keep the demand side broad enough to make room for everyone to have a fair shot at success, whether they started in week 1, or week 101. This should really have been called Beta II. There is still a lot of experimenting and learning to be done before this is polished enough for prime time. Ball: I agree with your last statement in principle, but not necessarily in reality. Because it is so much harder for the lower end products to be profitable, and the mega companies move into those other markets with dominating force, they do not help the economy. They overshadow slower players and choke them out, causing them to leave the game entirely, or restart at a bigger disadvantage. It all sounds eerily close to the "job creators" argument in the US, where 400 people own 60% of the nation's wealth, and 2% of the population took in 97% of new all the new wealth created over the last 10 years, and they are acting like they did the country a favor in the process.

You need to register or login to post a reply.

© 2012 Ratjoy.com Server Time: April 27, 2024, 2:14 PM